Day 4: Natural Wine with the Lab at Lou’s‏ Wine Bar L.A.

The Rational Denial Lab is a pseudo-scientific institute devoted to wine experimentation, palate education and other junk science. In support of Saignee’s 31 days of natural wine, Director of Lab Field Studies, J David Harden, recently met with Los Angeles wine bar auteur, Lou Amdur, to taste a natural wine from Domaine Oudin in Chablis.

I told you about the Thai Massage

Domaine Oudin is a small (8 ha) family winery in the village of Chichée just south of Chablis. The Oudins farm organically. They plow to avoid using herbicides. They employ natural yeast ferments. Their 2006 Chablis Les Serres (“the greenhouses”) sees no oak, but does spend two years on lees.


Orchard fruit and schist-y gravel demand attention on the nose. The acidity is bright and beautifully integrated and sets up an oxidative, nutty note mid-palate. The wine is dense and layered and even linear (but in a way that folds back on itself). It’s difficult to reduce this wine to parts, but the best element might be the finish of crushed sea shells and clover.

Lou Amdur owns and operates the eponymous Hollywood wine bar, Lou ( Sandwiched in between a nail salon and a laundromat, Lou is an unlikely location for the best wine bar in Los Angeles. But Lou features unique, natural wines from small, organic producers that you simply cannot find anywhere else in town. He shares the Lab’s fascination for wines made from old, ungrafted vines. We asked Lou three big questions about his approach to his list. If, after reading his answers, you aren’t calling to book a table for the Monday night prix fixe dinner, then you are probably beyond help.

1. Can you describe your “conversion” to natural wines?

My conversion experience to natural wine is on on-going and didn’t emerge from a single epiphanic moment of eureka. And I should say it’s an on-going conversion, as the natural wine movement itself is a moving target—with a vigneron like Thierry Puzelat, for example, it’s clear that he’s having an on-going conversation from vintage to vintage with his vines and his winegrowing process. Certainly a big thing for me was attending the huge Nicolas Joly natural wine road show a few years ago at the Skirball Center; that gave me an opportunity for the first time to taste a great many natural wines (I realized, after three hours, that (a) I was only half way through the tasting, (b) I was drunk, even though I was dutifully spitting, (c) I had been so enraptured by the wine that I’d been ignoring the klaxon horns of my poor bladder, and was on the verge of peeing in my pants, and (d) I had to somehow get back to my wine bar in Hollywood by 6 PM).

My palette is following an arc that I think is familiar to some who grow up with wine, but perhaps not very interesting wine. You fall in love with big, chunky wines, but end up preferring wines that are made with a lighter touch. As a kid this meant the big, chunky, sticky sweet Concord grape kosher wines of Shabbos and Pesach. But when I was four or five my Uncle Eli gave me a small glass of the very good wine he had been making in Minnesota starting in the late 50s—he was a serious-minded hobbyist and pioneering quality wine grape grower in Minnesota, plus he had a doctorate in chemical engineering so the wine making process was not something foreign to him. I remember that first taste of Eli’s wine; compared to the Manischewitz Concord grape wine I was accustomed to it tasted bitter to me but I liked it! And that’s the beginning of the arc.

In my late teens I drank mostly beer and cheap hard liquor (1 dollar shots of vodka at Verkhovyna in the East Village!). At that time the drinking age in NY was 18, and most delis had a decent selection of imported beer, and I found that I enjoyed more complex beers like Reinhardt Wild Ale. I did enjoy drinking what I referred to then as “big” wines, big oaky Napa zinfandels like Hannah’s. These big wines have sweetness, less from any residual sugar and more from the alcohol. And I understand completely why many people gravitate to such wines and never seem to move beyond: they’re wines that don’t make you think. And by “think,” I mean thinking with your tongue, not your brain. Émile Peynaud has a long description of how the tongue “thinks” in one of his books, and it’s actually quite disturbing to pay attention to the physiology of taste when you’re drinking wine. There’s a Stereolab tune with the line, “We need so damn many things to keep our dazed lives going,” i.e., we have a lot of shit to attend to in our lives and for most folks, wine is a field of non-controversial pleasure, they don’t want to think about wine, just enjoy it. You see the same attitude toward food among chefs like Bad Boy Bourdain, who’s attacked Alice Waters in the most embarrassing way—how dare you make me think about what I put in my mouth!

When you drink a massive, high extract, high alcohol wine, its overwhelms your palette; it’s a very atavistic pleasure that I liken, as a vulgar Kleinian, to the overwhelming feelings of deep satisfaction that blot out everything else that an infant feels when it suckles. And it makes it difficult for some people to enjoy a new wine, especially a lighter-bodied wine for which they lack reference points. It pains me when 20 somethings profess that they’re “pinot grigio” drinkers, as if pinot grigio is a brand, like Coke. They’re young geezers, many of whom will never drink outside their comfort zone. Jeremy Narby, when asked about the safety of taking ayahuasca, responded in an interview that we’re too safety obsessed in our culture—ayahuasca isn’t safe, it might just teach you something about yourself that changes you forever. I don’t want to live as a crabbed old coot like the character that Edgar Buchanan played in Petticoat Junction. I try to become more receptive to new things and experiences. Wine is my ayahuasca.

In the early 80s I worked at a restaurant, long gone, that was connected to the New York Wine Center in Manhattan. We were allowed a shift drink and we mostly drank Mondavi cabernet, but one day a wine rep sent back to the kitchen a half-full bottle of Lafarge Clos du Château des Ducs, ’78, and that was my transcendental wine experience. I didn’t know what I was in for—it’s like the first time you get high, you’re always chasing that first time. I kept looking for that bottle for years (only later did I learn that ’78 was a great Burgundy vintage, and that only way I was going to find a bottle of that Volnay was if someone opened a bottle for me—still hasn’t happened).

2. How do you go about discovering the wines for your list?

How do I learn about new wine? To be sure, you’re not going to find satisfying coverage in Wine and Spirits, Decanter, and of course, Wine Spectator. I learned a lot from reading two of Patrick Matthews’s books, The Wild Bunch and Real Wine. There are a few blogs I enjoy reading, and the discussion groups that I lurk around on, like Wine Disorder, are populated be folks who have had their conversion experience a long time ago. I depend a lot on the superb distributors and importers I work with to do the hard work of locating new growers: there’s Farm Wine (distributes Joe Dressner and José Pastor in California), Peter Weygandt, Michael Sullivan, Hiram Simon, and Betty Dunbar, to name a few. Note that these are importers who mostly import French wine (though Weygandt, for example, brings in some great Austrian wine, too). Sometimes, I find an importer that brings in a single biodynamic wine that I love (I’m thinking of one grower from Roussillon), but the rest of their book is not interesting. I’ve been trying to get a distributor for Jenny & Francois here in Los Angeles for a couple of years, and so far, no go, so when I order their wine, it’s a large order (for me, at least—30-50 cases). Another source are my friends and customers who bring me wine to try. I have a regular, now friend, Martin Marquette, who is good friends with Azzoni, and I first tasted three of Azzoni’s wines that Martin brought back from France for me. Finally, whenever I travel abroad (rare for me since I signed the lease for my wine bar in 2005), I visit wine bars, shops, and if I’m in wine country, vignerons, though I find organized tasting rooms a la Napa dull—I like talking to vignerons, not tasting room staff. We were in Paris last December and enjoyed visiting La Cremerie, it was just down the street from our hotel, and also Racines.

3. You’re stranded on a desert island, what three natural wines are in your

Three desert island wines: I’d pack a sparkling wine, a red wine, and a white wine. If there was room, I’d also pick a dessert desert wine. For a sparkler I’d go for a good grower Champagne, like Leroy’s zero dosage cuvée, or Drappier. For white I’d select something refreshing but also complex that might work well with my desert island fare of raw fish and coconut, perhaps one of Tissot’s non-sur voile wines (I love Tissot and Puffeny’s sur voile wines, but I don’t want to drink them every day), or maybe something really straight forward, like J.P. Brun’s Beaujolais blanc. For red, again, it’s a desert island, hot and dry, so I’d select Foillard’s Morgon Côtes du Py which I’d shove in the ocean for a few minutes before opening so that it’s nice and cool, or possibly one of Gauby’s wines, his vielles vignes. Both are wines that I have had over several vintages, and I never tire of drinking them, and always find new facets to enjoy. Finally, for dessert, Suronde’s Quarts du Chaume, or the Jurancon that Dageneau made (I have a six pack sitting my cellar—well, I’m down one bottle that I gave as a gift).

Hopefully the cops were picking up some Puzelat

Find Lou HERE

Follow day by day here:

Next up: Co-Blogger Chris Osborn digs into organic wines; or: Why are there so many hippies in Santa Cruz?

~ by Cory Cartwright on June 22, 2009.

17 Responses to “Day 4: Natural Wine with the Lab at Lou’s‏ Wine Bar L.A.”

  1. Great interview David. I completely agree with Lou about tasting rooms, i’d rather talk to a vigneron than be a sterile tasting room, even if that means being out in the mud. I’m glad you Los Angelenos have an equivalent to Terroir in your city.

  2. +1000 Bonus Points for an Ayahuasca reference.

  3. Huge thanks to Lou, and I owe you a drink when i’m in LA next David.

    +1000 bonus points for the Stereolab reference as well.

  4. Lou is not the best natural wine bar in America… it is the best natural wine bar IN THE WORLD!

    Great post…

  5. Those are fightin’ words for us up north. It’ll have to be a so-cal nor-cal showdown.

  6. It’s good to hear that L.A has is own natural wine bar, can’t wait to visit….
    one thing to be said about Dagueneau, while i respect his work in the vineyard a lot, i wouldn’t really consider him as natural as he was using selected yeasts in his wines…
    Lou, if you need any help with some obscure distributors and wines, let me know, i’ll be happy to share some infos with you…

  7. I was really surprised when I heard that about Dagueneau. I had been sold a few wines from him from someone who assured me all natural etc. but then I come to learn that he was fairly disdainful of a lot of natural wine making techniques. Still he’s (or was) fucking Didier Dagueneau so whatever, he’s past that.

    Guilhaume owns Terroir in San Francisco, Lou, since he forgot to mentiont that.

  8. i thought the best wine bar in the world was RN74??
    am i missing something here?

  9. @Guilhaume Terroir SF is the best… Where’s RN74?

  10. i know lou, we are fighting for the title of best natural wine bar in the galaxy this week end in Las Vegas, sorry the show is sold out.

  11. Austin is great but I miss you guys… I’ll be back!

  12. RN 74 – the route de grand crus in Burgundy

  13. Brooklynguy, it is also the name of a resaturant in SF that has received some of the most breathless hype in recent memory.

  14. Lou is the best: a lovely wine-man and a true inspiration!

  15. We’re not a better natural wine bar than Terroir because we have more interesting wine — we have the same wines, mostly (though because I pour everything by the glass you won’t see Bea’s wines or good grower Champagne at Lou, but you will find these wines at Terroir). We’re better because our sans souffre, all-analog hi-fi system is powered by 300b single-ended triode monoblocks fed strictly by low-hour moving coil cartridges and an old Audio Research tube head amp. Lowthers or rebuilt Quad electrostats, bien sûr.

  16. vegas is going to rock this week

    (thanks for stopping by)

  17. I wish that Eli was alive to read all of the above..he would have been captivated

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